Friday, June 19, 2009

Good news and bad news

EDIT:

Well thanks to reader advice I was able to solve the problem. I was an idiot and wasn't using static props. In my defense, static props tend to behave much less reliably for me, plus the model has to support them in the first place, something many do not. I got lucky in this case in that the model I was using did support being a static prop. Anyway, I'm a little undecided what to do now since I was ready to switch gears. I'm putting up a new poll, I'll go with whatever the masses decide on this.


ORIGINAL POST:

Well it looks like my tradition of discovering a completely new bug in every episode continues. Right now I've run into a bug that's preventing me from completing a scene (read below for details). I have some ideas as to how to fix it, but it's probably going to take the help of someone else helping with modelling and it's hard to say how long that will take. The good news for you is that since I can only do so much more on the episode from my end until this is fixed, I'll go ahead and start working on the next Freeman's Mind episode while this bug gets looked into. I still have every intention of completing this CP episode, but I hate making you guys wait on more material. If all I had to do was writing, I could produce a new episode every day of FM and CP.


To those familiar with the Source engine:

The bug I'm running into is "Reliable Snapshot Overflow" that crashes the map and occurs whenever I try to record a demo. I know what's causing it in my case. It has to do with me having a ton of small dynamic props in a small area. I could fix this problem by deleting the props, but I unfortunately need them for this scene. Right now my best theory on how to fix this is to merge many of small individual models into one larger one, so the game sees less props to process. This is probably going to be a pain to do for our modeller. If any of you know more about this than I do, feel free to post possible solutions here. If you discover one before we do and notify me, I'll put your name down in the credits of the next episode as a technical advisor.

60 comments:

Syntax Terror said...

There's some reports of this bug (and yeah, it definitely appears because of the amount of props) being solved by lowering the cl_updaterate and cl_cmdrate values and raising the rate value from console, to for example:
cl_cmdrate 30
cl_updaterate 20
rate 9999
These are for online games though, so it seems unlikely that it would fix your problem. But it's worth a shot, isn't it? It might give your CPU more time to handle the stress or something. Emphasis on or something.

fire.esper said...

Try launching the app with "+r_hunkalloclightmaps 0" in the launch options.

I think this specifically prevents multiple physics props from bugging out the game.

Rubber Ducky said...

u

BillyMays said...

I have a question

How about you Collab with the Shepards Mind Guy and have him voice over when he drags your body for questioning or even barney's mins

Anonymous said...

AK-47

I am not too familiar with source but I think the problem is physics objects as fire.esper says.

So the problem may be, not the number of objects but the attemopt to apply physics properties to all of them.

If you are willing to join them together I guess you do not need to interact with them.

SO is there a way to make physics engine just ignore them. Make the objects stay in one place un affected by the engine calculations.
Thera are probably such options for lights and other objects in game to be simply ignored.

ALSO mergin objects into one does not sound hard, the only problem is that the number of faces stays the same.

salsor said...

If there's a way to raise the amount of reliable snapshots, that should fix the problem so that everything would be rendered too. Or somehow make the engine block too much data entering a reliable snapshot. And those solutions in the case in which the error comes because of too big reliable snapshots. If the case is about too many reliable snapshots, then raise the amount of reliable snapshots that will be processed or make the engine block redundant reliable snapshots. But yeah, haven't got any real solutions though :(

Ross Scott said...

Syntax Terror and fire esper: Thanks, I'll try these and let you know if it helps

Also I should have specified to everyone these are not physics objects, just regular dynamic props. They don't need to move or collide whatsoever, just show up.

jakedee010 said...

gdam it!
i am no good at stuff like this but i heard that too mant props cause stuff to go wrong.

Mefix said...

No experience with source, but lots of modeling experience.

If they are scattered in an easy to replicate manner (flat surface) with no complex patterns, your modeler can probably scatter them in his modeling app and export as 1 object.

On the other hand if it’s a million of cans that fill up a street, it may be more difficult. (And I would guess this may be your case)

fire.esper said...

Dynamic props are physics objects as well I think. Although if you really don't need them to move or anything, just change the prop type (to prop_static or something) in Hammer?..

Although some of my poor attempts at mapping show this will prevent some objects from being drawn... Gah.

Nochtjaeger said...

You might already know this, but the whole point of a dynamic prop is to allow it to be able to move with its parent entity or play an animation. If you don't actually need them to move or collide, why not switch them over to static props? There can be literally thousands of them in one scene, and they're far less taxing on the engine at the same time, so there's almost no chance of running into overload problems.

Or are they the props that only show up in game if they're set to dynamic? If that's what they are, then try going into the prop's properties window and change 'collisions' to 'not solid'. I think (don't quote me on it) that will negate any computational hang ups on the object by the physics engine, and still leave it visible in the world and working properly.

I'm just thinking out loud here.

Ross Scott said...

Wow, I'm an idiot. Yeah, that DID fix the problem. That's something that should have occured to me, but I'll stick to what I said. Fire esper and Nochtjaeger email me and let me know how you want to be credited.

Andrew said...

I would like to see a new freemans mind everyday but due to the time constrants i would have to say don't do it. I have a feeling that it would become like Barneys mind. The creativity would drop to a point where it isn't funny. Just please stop making me wait a month and a half for new FMs and CPs.

DirtyBlue929 said...

I like pushing Buttons! WEEEE!!!

Otto said...

Ah, great work, problem-solvers. A satisfying quick response with very helpful information. Though if you run into this issue again, I think the attention will be on why exporting models makes them incompatible to be static props. No idea what the standards are, but I'm sure you're familiar enough with the system.

I'm personally quite happy with whatever Episode you work on next, though I do believe Freeman's Mind has had its turn for the moment and I would expect the community to settle on the fresh for now. Bu the Masses Vote already says that.

Fire.Esper said...

No crediting needed, you're the one doing all the work. :)

Good luck out there.

Anonymous said...

Ak-47


Syntax and me, AK-47, do not get credited ?

:(

I tried to help too. Just because I do not know source well enough to give a direct command does not mean that my advice was useless

:(

Just kidding. Its your decision Ross and I will honor it. I just hope I helped a bit

Anonymous said...

LOL these comments actualy helped with my new map im making TY!

Mick said...

Damn those buttons!

Finish Civil Protection though. It was long long time... so long... so hungry...

Anonymous said...

pushing buttons FTW.

daniel said...

Yes, Freeman's Mind is amazing. But I really miss Civil Protection. So I voted for that one. ;)
I'm glad, you have your problem solved.

Ross Scott said...

AK 47: Alright, I'll put you down too, go ahead and email me me

Otto said...

Heh, can't help but save the little guy, eh?

Anonymous said...

I like FM better but if you are 70% then you might as well get the new CP done.

Anonymous said...

I believe there is three different ways you can solve this bug.

#1. Attempt to merge X number of props into a larger model to decrease the prop count. It's pain but it might help the problem.

#2. Clean up unnecessary files. Something about the Log's such as Game Log etc.

#3. Always the simplest way but isn't always helpful, get more RAM or memory.

LKD said...

I was only somewhat interested in Civil Protection. As it's seemingly more drawn out in humor then the reactionary Freeman, but after I finally saw the Halloween episode, I have a well seated fondness for the duo.

I really hope you consider the mindset you were in that episode when you do additional ones and speed up the storylines. It was hysterical to have one of them suggest how not to make napalm.

Anonymous said...

I like Civil Protection and Freeman's mind about equally. Freeman's mind is nice because you can produce a lot more material in the same amount of time. On the other hand, there hasn't been a Civil Protection for a long time, and if you are 70% done I would say you should work on Civil Protection.

AlphaTM said...

I like pressing buttons.

Especially on your polls, Ross <3

Ross Scott said...

Mick: I feel the pain, I have so many ideas for the series, it drives me nuts I can't produce the episodes faster than I do.

Anonymous guy: I solved it via converting them to static models and more RAM wouldn't help if it's not utilizing what I have in the first place.

LKD: I hope to have a real variety in the series. I tend to prefer ones where the storyline develops, but I realize much of my audience is a little more ADD oriented. I just wish I had means of producing episodes faster so people could see the full range.

Brian Crawmer said...

I voted for you to finish the CP episode. I *love* Freeman's Mind and Civil Protection both, and though I find FM more funny, there hasn't been a new CP episode out in a long while, and they're really funny, in a different sort of way.

Any episode that's a long episode is a great episode.

But I still like pressing buttons.

JoeScratch said...

At this point I would rather have you finish the CP episode than take on a new project again. I don't want to see this episode get bumped again.
Even though we all love FM, CP definately has priority.

jaffa_5 said...

i love C.P. and F.M. me and my mate went round for months saying lines from the first C.P. like "i am ninja" "wooping crain wooop wooop wooop""i am mighty tigar" "do not mock the ninja" just for shits and giggles. anyway keep up the good work i haope u keep freemans mind going in to half-life2 maby even HL3 when it eventuly comes out. id love to see u do something simular with portal (maby get a woman to do the voice though lol). anyway thanks and keep up the good work =)

tourettes said...

I don't want to be a jerk. But, if Freeman's Mind only needs little work (write the script) then maybe just do that. Get that out of the way so at least people will stop complaining. Well, you do what you want to do! I'm excited for the new episode, but a new Freeman's Mind would be cool to. I realize your busy, so I'll just shut up. Oh yeah, I forgot... I LIKE PUSHING BUTTONS!

Anonymous said...

hey wheres the poll option for the piolet episode?

mookae said...

i wonder how many people will actually choose the third option, lawl. Anyways, i vote FM. I mean, it inspired two other people to give it a shot, plus they're making it WAY faster than you. And P.S. if you're going to switch gears then just do it. Maybe you'll come up with a last minute idea for CP while doing FM.

TBone said...

mookae is right. FM is tha shit. It's the reason I watched your other shows. Whatever you decide to do though I respect your decision. I enjoy your humor.

ultradude25 said...

Hi Ross.

I know you have already fixed your problem with prop_static but since you said you don't like it, then I will tell you an easy fix for the RSO.

This error happens if there are too many objects on screen at a time.
One way to fix it is to start recording before you spawn the props, if they are already in the map then you can put in a button to spawn the props when you press it. If you still get an RSO then you will need to spawn less at a time.

The second solution (It doesn't always work, but it's worth a try) is to have a separate room that you spawn in with a teleporter that takes you to the main part of the map where the objects are. Start the recording then when you go through the teleporter, duck and look at the ground so you are not rendering the objects then slowly look up.

For an example of the first one (At least it crashes on my computer) search garrysmod.org for "phys_temple".
If you try recording while the temple is standing you will RSO, but if you smash down the building so non of the objects exist then start recording and press the button to respawn the buildings, you won't RSO.

Hope this helped, looking forward to that CP episode.

f12bwth said...

Ah, Good old RSO. We garrysmod people know it well.

BJPH said...

With the poll: as much as I want another Freeman's Mind You might as well finish CP. I'd rather wait for a good episode (of CP and FM) than have it come out more soon.

DirtyBlue929 said...

I'm actually surprised that pushing buttons has 10 % of the votes. I only voted for it cuz I thought it wouldn't get too many votes. But.. wow.

Anonymous said...

I think you should do whatever you want to do, and all these whining button pushers should be grateful for all this awesome free entertainment and how much you care about your audience.

TureX said...

FM is better and faster than CP. Why not concentrate more on it?

Anonymous said...

Your imitators really suck hard. please don't do any collaborations with them for the love of god. i think people just watch them for the sake of something similar to FM. i am guilty.

Anonymous said...

You LAZY Bastard 'm wating for new episode of CP and FM but, I still se some kind of shittttt!!!!!! Can you start working on new episodes and stop doing this unhelpfull petition!!!!!!!!!! Asshole!!!

shadowplay29 said...

what i have found in games is that its the engine i have seen a engine modifier for half life 2 i think its called cinematics mod try that...and if not hope that you can get help from someone ^_^

shadowplay29 said...

what i have found in games is that its the engine i have seen a engine modifier for half life 2 i think its called cinematics mod try that and if not hope that someone can ^_^

shadowplay29 said...

what i have found in games is that its the engine i have seen a engine modifier for half life 2 i think its called cinematics mod try that

Jared said...

Anonymous, your wrong, i think shephards mind is very funny, not ross scott funny, but dammit its close.

Crazy Cal said...

"Your imitators really suck hard. please don't do any collaborations with them for the love of god. i think people just watch them for the sake of something similar to FM. i am guilty."

LOL hypocrite. Also, you have a bad grasp of how to troll. If you REALLY want to troll, then say the same thing on the blogs for Barney's mind and Shepard's mind. Oh, you weren't trolling? My bad. It was kind of hard to tell.

awsgames said...

Wow, looks like the tides are turning. I think Freeman's Mind might actually win. It's gone from only 38% with CP at like 60% to being 44% with CP at only 45%.

Anonymous said...

Oh wow. 45% for first 2 votes. Ross, you should make a vote about continuing CP or not because I think FM is much better than CP and I am pretty sure that 70% would be in favor of FM.

patrinater said...

i just say finish civie if it's almost done all it would do is slow you down making the next FM

Anonymous said...

LOL

45% - 45% percent split on civil protection and FM vote..
with 10% who just like to push buttons.

So,Ross I guess it is still your decision entirely.

Otto said...

http://i0006.photobucket.com/albums/0006/findstuff22/Best%20Images/Photography/waterdroptlet1.jpg

Fine split, but I pretty much thought Freeman's Mind was out of the question right about now. There has been a constant maintenance of eight episodes for the last few months without any glimpse of Civil Protection.

I would have thought people would be eager for more, and although it may be "quicker" to make one episode of a miniseries than it does for another series, I'd say forty-six minutes is enough length to cover for releasing more Civil Protection. Heh, "work on fm" has been said too many times now and anymore would mean he'd never be able to go back to C.P. :P

Anonymous said...

i loved the first civil protection the friday one make more like that it was funny!

Anonymous said...

i loved the first civil protection the friday one make more like that is was awsome!

Anonymous said...

yea just finish the civil protection episode and try to get to the freeman's mind i cant wait ive been like playing with you and i got past you and im stuck hurry plz but dont hurrry a way that would make you rush and make the quality shittyer just try to finish soon! <3

Anonymous said...

CrazyCal

How does that make me a hypocrite? I gave them a chance like any other because I was eager to see more FM style shows. Fact is they don't measure up to FM. Just like you don't measure up enough to have a problem with what I say.

Critic sure, hypocrite? Make sure you know what words mean before you try to bomb. This is a place to give Ross feedback on his shows, not poorly attempt to attack another's comment. Unless of course you are the guy making these other shows lol

Anonymous said...

Shadow

Shepard's mind does it for you eh? You know... the dialogue wasn't all that bad, but the series was missing one really big thing: ORIGINALITY

Anonymous said...

Sorry shadow, I was responding to Jared. Not you. Keep up the good engine advice. :)